Theory and Postulation
connecting Thomas Blayney born 1770 (London)
with the Blayneys of Montgomeryshire, Wales
My own line, descended from Thomas b1770 in London has always hit a brick wall, but information from Robert Blayney seems to link in with "on the ground" research under way by Terry Muff [126], material from William Barker's "Families of Montgomeryshire" CD-Rom [72], and research from Kevin McKenzie [145]
Postulated ancestral origins of Thomas BLAYNEY b.1770 of London:
The most likely line to date is that my ancestor Thomas BLAYNEY (tailor of London, b.1770) was the son or younger brother of Thomas BLAYNEY (b.1754 ?shoemaker and/or Haberdasher), son of Richard BLAYNEY (b~1726 in Montgomeryshire, moved to London before 1758, Haberdasher), in turn son of Thomas BLAYNEY (b~1685±10yr Llanllwchaiarn, near Newtown, Montgomeryshire, wheelwright d.1761 Llanllwchaiarn).
In co-operation with Kevin McKenzie and after considerable research into 16th & 17th century Welsh genealogies, records and papers, it is now possible to make a reasonably reliable connection between Thomas the WheelWright and Evan BLAYNEY, the first of that name, and then back to Brochfael Ysgythrog and other early British kings. The patronymic (patrilineal) name is thus:
Thomas ap Richard ap Morris (ap Morris) ap Morris ap Robert ap Howell ab Owen ap Howell ap Ievan (Evan) Blayney. Evidence and reasoning for this conclusion are presented below in Comment 2
Postulated descent from
Thomas BLAYNEY (wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn died 1761)
to my known ancestor
Thomas BLAYNEY (tailor of London, b.1770)
To assist with place names associated with Blayneys in the area of Montgomeryshire around Gregynog, see the Location page. |
1 Thomas BLAYNEY (Blaeney) b. between 1675 & 1695] (Llanllwchaiarn)
Occ. wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn d.1761 [72]
Son of Richard BLAYNEY of Bettws Cedewain and Ann HODSON
- see Comment 2
Previously I had considered a number of possible descents -see below
+(1)Jane/Jana EVANS m.24Feb1701 (Bettws) [72]
+(2)Jane HUMPHREYS m.14May1733 (Bettws Cedewain)
d.Jan1757 bur 8Jan1757 (Llanllwchaiarn) [72]
Children of Thomas and Jane (EVANS):
2 Thomas BLAYNEY b~1718 alive 1758
This is most probably the Thomas BLAYNEY who married Anna JONES  llanllwchaiarn Church (old postcard) |
[unproven connection 1] 5 Richard Jonah BLAYNEY + Elizabeth GILBERT m.9Sep1867 (St. Matthews, Bethnal Green, London) 6 Rose Matilda BLAYNEY b.1888 + Charles Edwin WINGROVE b.1875 (Poplar); m.17Aug1914 (St. James Church, Forest Gate) Previously married to Rose's sister, Emma Mary BLAYNEY 7 four children, born 1921-1928 all in West Ham R.D.; Alexander L., Gladys I.M., Eileen D.V. and Doreen M.M. WINGROVE 6 Emma Mary BLAYNEY b.1880; d.1914 (Bethnal Green) + Charles Edwin WINGROVE b.1875 (Polar); m.1897 (Bethnal Green) Subsequently married Emma's sister, Rose Matilda BLAYNEY 7 seven children, born 1898-1912, the 1st 2 born in Bethnal Green: Charles Edwin, Walter George, Emma Florence, Lillian Lena, Daisy Violet, Rose Mary and Frederick WINGROVE 2 Margaret BLAYNEY b~1728 + unknown HOWELL m<1758 2 Mary BLAYNEY b~1730 alive 1758 + Richard Davies m.1763 [145] 2 Arthur BLAYNEY (BLANEY) b~1735 d.14Jan1788 [249] Occ wheelwright [72] + Jane BRICK b~1732 m.19Sep1763 d.22May1803 [249] bur.25May1803 3 Arthur BLAYNEY (BLANEY) Junr b.1764/5 d.1833 of Pwll Coed [72] Publican; bur.24Jan1833 Llanllwchaiarn + Letitia (Letty) OWEN(S) of Newton m.19Jun1785 4 Thomas BLAYNEY bpt.25Sep1785 (Tyn-y-Coed, Llanllwchaiarn) Third son of Arthur & Letitia of Tyn-y-Coed Occ. Harpist, won the prize at the Carmarthen Eisteddfod 9Jul1819. Noted as a renoun harpist by historian Thomas PRICE (1787-1848), and his "brilliant playing" of the triple harp was responsible for its popularity in South Wales. [486] He kept a public-house at Lydney Nth, near Walcot and became the family harpist to Lord POWYS in 1829 but died soon after. [247] [336] + ___ See Blayneys in Lydbury North 4 Arthur BLAYNEY b~1788 Occ. violinist (well known) [247] + Sarah TIBBOT b~1790 m.4May1811 at Llanllwchaiarn dau of John TIBBOT, weaver, & Mary HOWELS of LLanllwchaiarn 5 Mary BLAYNEY bpt.24Apr1814 (Llanllwchaiarn) 5 Harriet BLAYNEY bpt.22Apr1816 (Llanllwchaiarn) ? d.y. 5 Sarah BLAYNEY bpt.4Apr1817 (Llanllwchaiarn) alive 1825 5 John BLAYNEY bpt.6Feb1820 (Llanllwchaiarn) 5 Harriet BLAYNEY bpt.24Jun1821 (Llanllwchaiarn) ? d.y. 5 William BLAYNEY bpt.13Oct1822 (Llanllwchaiarn) 5 Jane BLAYNEY bpt.6Jun1824 (Llanllwchaiarn) 5 Thomas BLAYNEY bpt.28Aug1825 (Llanllwchaiarn) Possibly the Thomas Blayney who was born about 1820 in "Newton, North Wales" and died in a Lead Mine accident 29Nov1875. Ancestor of some other New Zealand and Australian Blayneys 5 Elizabeth BLAYNEY bpt.27Mar1831 (Llanllwchaiarn) 5 Harriet BLAYNEY bpt.10Aug1834 (Llanllwchaiarn) ? Third time lucky! 4 Jane BLAYNEY bpt.6Aug1793 (Llanllwchaiarn) 4 Mary BLAYNEY b.1796 d.1Mar1797 [249] bur.4Mar1797 (11mths) (Llanllwchaiarn) 4 Mary BLAYNEY bpt.3May1801 (Llanllwchaiarn) 3 Mary BLAYNEY bpt.10Nov1766 d.4Aug1775 [249] (Llanllwchaiarn)
 Bettws Hall today ?4 storey section = C18th |
Comment 1: Previous alternative origins for Thomas BLAYNEY the wheelwright
The origins of Thomas BLAYNEY
(wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn ~1685-1761)
While the father was thought to be a Richard, until now the true origins have not been entirely clear, although some deductions and postulations were possible. Kevin McKenzie [145] made a valid observation that our family more often than not has patterns of naming, particularly "cycling" through Arthur, Richard and Thomas (and other more English names), avoiding the older Welsh names such as Owen, Howell and Evan. Furthermore, Llanllwchaiarn and the nearby villages of Aberhafesp, Llanbrynmair, Bettws Cedewain (as well as Tregynog) are small enough to presume close kinship of any Blayneys, which in the 1680s only had one or two Blayney families [95] [or see my list of Blayneys from the St Asaph Notitiae survey]. From this and as many independent sources possible, I can propose four quite reasonable origins:
- Thomas ab Edward ap Thomas ap John ab (Sir) Edward Blayney
ie the gt-gt-grandson of Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney via John See Origin 1
or - Thomas ?ap Richard ab Arthur ap John ab (Sir) Edward Blayney
ie the gt-gt-gt-grandson of Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney via John See Origin 2
or - Thomas ap Richard ap Arthur ab (Sir) Arthur ab (Sir) Edward Blayney
ie the gt-gt-grandson of Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney via Sir Arthur Blayney. See Origin 3
or - Thomas ab Edward ap Morris ap Morris ap Robert ap Howell ab Owen ap Howell ab Evan Blayney
ie the gt-gt-gt-gt-gt-gt-grandson of Evan Blayney (1st of the name) via Howell. See Origin 4
[Enough evidence now supports this as the true option]
1st Possible Origin, from Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney
See Edward1.html for more detail
1 Sir Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney b.1570 d.1629
+ Anne Catherine LOFTUS b.1567 d.1629
2 John BLAYNEY b?<1605 d~1671 of Tregynog [72]
+ unknown
3 Thomas BLAYNEY b~1625 m<1670. Gent. of Aberhafesp
+ unknown
4 Edward ?James BLAYNEY b<1669 Gent. of Hill, Aberhafesp and
nephew of Arthur BLAYNEY, gent. of Cefn Gwyfydd, Gregynon [72]
+ Elizabeth JODRELL m.1676
5 Thomas BLAYNEY (~1682 - ~1759 of Aberhafesp) [72]
?? = Thomas BLAYNEY (wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn ~1685±10y-1761)
However, the eldest son of a gentleman would be unlikely to choose to be a wheelwright [145]
+ ?Bridget [72] ?Jane
5 John BLAYNEY b~1684
+ Judith (had a son John)
5 Lourie BLAYNEY b~1680 alive 1688 d.unm 1756 (Newtown)
5 Katherine BLAYNEY b.13Apr1685 (Aberhafesp) d.unm 1756 (Newtown)
5 Jodrellus BLAYNEY bpt.28Feb1691/2 (Llanllwchaiarn)
4 Arthur BLAYNEY d.~1686 Gent. of Aberhafesp [72]
+ Jane
5 Catherine BLAYNEY b~1660 alive 1685
3 Arthur BLAYNEY b~1627 d.1680 Gent. of Cefn Gwyfydd, Gregynon [72]
+ Mary
2nd Possible Origin, from Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney
See Edward1.html for more detail. This line fits the place (Llanllwchaiarn) but Arthur/Richard/Thomas pattern noted by Kevin [145] is less obvious.
1 Arthur BLAYNEY b~1640 (1630/45) Weaver in 1671
possibly the grandson or gt-grandson of Sir Edward BLAYNEY
(see Arthur BLAYNEY above).
+ Gwen (Gwenna) m.7Feb1665 (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 Owen BLAYNEY bpt.16Feb1666/7 (Llanllwchaiarn)
3 Margeta bpt.11May1670
2 Richard BLAYNEY bpt.23Jan1670/1 ?d.y. (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 _alkinus BLAYNEY (?Malkinus) bpt.3Apr1674 (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 Roger BLAYNEY bpt.22Jun1677 d.1677 (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 Katherine BLAYNEY bpt.22Dec1683 (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 dau. BLAYNEY b.May1685 (Llanllwchaiarn)
2 Richard BLAYNEY bpt.29Mar1687 (Llanllwchaiarn)
This Richard is too young to be the father of our Thomas BLAYNEY
(wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn ~1685±10y-1761), but he could be his cousin
as he fits the time and place.
3rd Possible Origin, from Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney
See Edward1.html for more detail. This line fits the Arthur/Richard/Thomas pattern noted by Kevin [145] and in fact is the only origin with the name "Arthur" appearing in the C17th or before (its use only seems to have started in the Blayney family in the late C16th) [145].
1 Sir Edward Blayney, 1st Lord Blayney b.1570 d.1629
+ Anne Catherine LOFTUS b.1567 d.1629
2 Sir Arthur (Anthony) BLAYNEY b.1603 d.11Feb1659
+ Joyce (Joyous) BLAYNEY m.1642. Heiress of Gregynog
3 Arthur BLAYNEY b~1645
+(1)Mary (?Margaret) FORBES
4 Richard BLAYNEY
Possibly the Richard BLAYNEY, householder of Bettws Cedewain with family
of eight in 1681 and five in 1686 noted in the "St Asaph Notitiae" [145]
However, I think that Richard was more likely to be the son of
Morris BLAYNEY (~1630-~1689) Gent. of Heigate, Bettws Cadewen See Origin 4
+ unknown
5 ??Thomas BLAYNEY (wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn ~1685±10y-1761)
This is possibly the best contender for the "missing link" to my ancestors. Richard's
mother (Mary / Margaret) appears commonly in Thomas the wheelwright's family [145] and
his father was Richard.
4 Henry BLAYNEY
4 Jane BLAYNEY
4 Elizabeth BLAYNEY
+(2)Jane SMOTHERGILL (?from Belturbet, Co Cavan)
4 ?Henry BLAINE
4 five other children
Apparently impoverished, a possible further source of our little-known shoemaker!
4 ?
There is evidence that on the death of Richard Blayney, his widow (Jane SMOTHERGILL) didn't have sufficient means to support both her family and her step children (Mary / Margaret's children) - see Comment 2:) on the Arthur BLAYNEY page.
4th Possible origin, from Howell Blayney, son of 1st (Evan) Blayney
See Howell.html for more detail. and laterly the Arthur/Richard/Thomas pattern noted by Kevin [145]
1 Howell (Hywel) BLAYNEY b.1411 d.
+(1)Alson (Gwenllian) daughter of Madoc ab Ievan
2 Owen (Owain) ap Howell BLAYNEY b~1444
+ Lowri ferch Morgan
3 Howell (Hywel) ab Owen BLAYNEY of Ystumgwern b~1490
+ Margret ferch Robert ap David ap John ab Ednyfed  Highgate Bettws Cedewain 1 mile from Bettws Cedewain |
Comment 2: Rationale for origin from Howell Blayney, son of 1st (Evan) Blayney
The reasons why Thomas BLAYNEY the wheelwright has been identified as Thomas ap Richard ap Morris (ap Morris) ap Morris ap Robert ap Howell ab Owen ap Howell ap Evan (Ievan) Blayney:
- The father is Richard (which fits)
- We have the right time
- This line also fits the place (Bettws Cedewain is just up the road from Llanllwchaiarn)
- Thomas ap Richard ap Morris was the son of a 2nd son and as such would be more likely to seek a trade than the son of an heir.
- The oral tradition that the family moved back from Ireland following an inter-family religious feud was assummed to be Sir Arthur Blayney of Shien Castle returning to Wales, but
- there is no evidence Arthur's family was anything other than protestant like the Blayney Lords, in fact his descendants included C o E ministers like Rev William MITCHELL
- The "rift" story may have been confused with the well documented split in the Northern Irish Blayneys, some of whom moved to Australia and have communicated with my family. See Edward Blayney Family. This tradition extends to the Blaineys who think the fight was in the early 1800s - see Blayney Genforum message 32.
- Our Thomas married a Jane HUMPHREYS) on 14May1733 in Bettws Cedewain but the children listed are clearly from a prior marriage as they are all born before 1733.
- Barker's "Families of Montgomeryshire, Wales 1675-1825" [72] has our Thomas BLAYNEY (Blaeney) born Llanllwchaiarn and married to a Jane HUMPHREYS) on 14May1733 in Bettws Cedewain but he also has a THOMAS BLAYNEY - married (by banns, as local resident) at Bettws, Wales 24 Feb 1701 to a JANA EVANS (Gwynne's Marriage Index). Jana Evans marrying a Thomas Blayney at Bettws in 1701 is clearly the same as the Jane Evans who married Thomas ap Richard ap Morris [bpt.1668 (Bettws Cedewain, just up the road from Llanllwchaiarn)] in 1701
- The will of this Thomas Blayney, wheelwright of Llanllwchaiarn (Montg.), Wales, dated 20 Dec 1758 (probated 1761), mentions witnesses - Thomas Powell the Younger, Samuel Powell and Thomas Powell the Elder [72]. Robert Blayney ap Howell (d.1577, husband of Dyddgu and father of Morris Foreman of Grand Jury 1613/14; bur.16Jun1614 Berriew [married Dorothy of Fachir]) also went by the surname Powell (from ap Howell). Robert had at least two brothers using the name, Richard Powell of Berriew and Thomas Poll aka Blayney. It would be quite reasonable to assume the Powell witnesses to Thomas the wheelwright's will were his cousins and so this supports a Howell origin.
- The likely descent of Bettws Hall [more later]
- The appearance of the name Dorothy/Dorothea in the family [more later]